The Tennessee Baptist Mission Board recently hosted the first “Ask Randy” webinar, featuring TBMB president and executive director Randy C. Davis. Matt Tullos, assistant to the executive director, served as moderator. Below is a full transcript:
Matt Tullos:
All right, it’s great to see so many faces on our Zoom call. I’ve got a lot of pastors here, 62 participants in all, and so welcome to the Ask Randy podcast. You probably know Randy. Well, I know that you know Randy. Otherwise, you probably wouldn’t be on this call. My name is Matt Tullos. Brother Randy, can you hear me okay?
Randy Davis:
Yes, sir. I’m hearing you just fine. Thank you very much, Matt.
Matt Tullos:
I’m hearing you good, too. We’re excited to get an opportunity to chat with you. Just a few minutes ago, Brother Randy said he would like this to be more like we’re sitting down to have a cup of coffee, and so, if you’ve got your java, we’re ready to talk about what’s been going on, lots of things going on in the SBC, and if you’re anyone like me, we’ve experienced a lot of conversation and questions from the pews, as well as other pastors, about what’s going on.
Matt Tullos:
Chris Turner, our communications director, had this great idea of why don’t we offer an opportunity for Brother Randy, our sage here at TBMB, to just address all of these questions, and so you turned in several questions. We’re sorry we’re not going to be able to have a chat or a conversation with 67 people now on the call, but we took the questions that we were given on email, and I’ve got them in these TBMB branded cards here, and I’m just going to run through these, Brother Randy. We look forward to hearing what you have to say about these questions here, lots of things. The first one is a very simple one. What is going on in the SBC?
Randy Davis:
You know, Matt, thank you. I want to thank all of you for joining us for this conversation, and especially in this format. I appreciate Matt Tullos calling me a sage. I’m certainly not a sage; I’m a servant.
Randy Davis:
We’ve been fielding questions since, primarily, the Southern Baptist Convention that was held in Nashville just a few months ago. As the executive committee went on with their work in September and October, we have been fielding a lot more questions, and we have people very concerned.
Randy Davis:
The questions that you are asking, that Matt will get to, you’re the ones that have asked these questions, and I haven’t memorized responses. I just want to give you what’s on my heart, what’s on my mind. This is one man’s opinion, and I’ll be glad to share it in that light.
Randy Davis:
Now, some of the questions, I’ll not be able to answer. Matt, we just got one in right before we started this podcast, and that was, “My son wants to be a cattle rancher. How does he get into that?” I’d say it begins with buying a bull and a cow. Other than that, I don’t know what to say about how you get into cattle farming, but this question, the first question out of the block, is the question I’ve been asked far and wide. It’s coming from, not just pastors, but a lot of laymen are paying attention.
Randy Davis:
Some of the folks I used to pastor, some people that are going to a church, and somebody off the pew will just, after the service, will say, “Dr. Davis, can you tell us what’s happening in the Southern Baptist Convention?” Now, I know what they mean by that, and what they mean by that is what is all the conflict and the consternation about?
Randy Davis:
We can tick off a lot of different things. I mean, there are lawsuits that Southern Baptist leaders have against one another, and entities are involved in lawsuits brought about by other individuals. We’re living in an environment of vaccine or no vaccine, mask or no mask, and we’re coming out of a global pandemic that has caused all kinds of consternation. When they ask that question, they’re asking about what they’re reading about on social media, what they’re hearing about through other channels.
Randy Davis:
What I’m not seeing or hearing is… Nehemiah was brought news of home by some of his cousins while he was in the employ of the king. The Bible records Nehemiah as being brokenhearted over this news of the gates and the walls around Jerusalem being in rubble. I mean, it broke his heart.
Randy Davis:
I think a lot of our pastors and laymen are brokenhearted over what’s going on in our beloved network of churches, our bigger family, called the Southern Baptist Convention, but I don’t want us to lose heart, because when you ask me what’s going on in the Southern Baptist Convention, I would like to talk about the 600 missionaries that have been appointed over the last two years with their families, to serve around the globe spreading the Gospel. I’d love to talk about the revival taking place at Carson-Newman and how Union University is a flagship among Southern Baptist universities.
Randy Davis:
I would love to talk to you about what’s happening in foster care and orphan care and caring for adults with particular disabilities and churches being planted. At our upcoming summit, the TBC, you folks are going to meet a Micronesian pastor, and you’re going to meet an Afghan pastor, and you’re thinking, “They’re coming all the way to Tennessee for our summit?” No. This Afghan pastor and this Micronesian pastor are right here in the state of Tennessee, and they’re doing a great, awesome work.
Randy Davis:
When you ask that question, “What’s going on in the Southern Baptist Convention?” I know what people are thinking, but I want them to also know that what’s good going on is incredible.
Randy Davis:
The Southern Baptist Convention has always had to overcome obstacles. Now, we’ve got a flag out there that we’re heading to that has to do with Great Commission, fulfilling it, supporting benevolent ministry, educational ministries, and mission enterprises, but along the way, there’s some very serious things that we have to address, that we have to take care of along the way, but we don’t need to get bogged down in those things. We need to keep pushing forward.
Matt Tullos:
Well, the second question that was emailed to us, simply this, “Could you explain the issues the SBC Executive Committee faced that has led to resignations of Ronnie Floyd and some of the board members?”
Randy Davis:
Well, if you followed it, and I watched a good portion of when they had their sessions that could be viewed online. I watched them, and it seems to me that they grappled a great deal with the waiving of attorney-client privilege. There was a motion passed overwhelmingly at Southern Baptist Convention in Nashville that called for an investigation into how the executive committee handled their responses to sexual abuse allegations, and they really struggled with this.
Randy Davis:
I know men and women that serve on our executive committee. They’re good-hearted people that have a great deal of integrity, and they, like all of us, we abhor sexual abuse,-
Matt Tullos:
Right.
Randy Davis:
Whether it is of a child or an adult. I can think of nothing else that can compare with that kind of demonic behavior. The struggle they had was not whether or not they wanted to do something about it, but how to go about it. I think that was the biggest issue.
Randy Davis:
When it came time to vote on waiving attorney-client privilege, which the motion that was overwhelmingly passed by the messengers at the Southern Baptist Convention called for the waiving of attorney-client privilege as it relates to this investigation into the response to sexual abuse within the Southern Baptist Convention. That’s where the hangup was, and that’s where the consternation was.
Randy Davis:
The board members from Tennessee that resigned, I know them, and these are some of the best people in the whole SBC, let alone Tennessee, and they’ve got great minds and great hearts. For reasons that they explained, they just could not vote for this. Can I just add in here that I think that’s where we… big problem going on within, whether it’s the church or outside the church. We’ve got a big problem that we cannot respect one another when it comes to disagreement on how to do something, and if you disagreed with someone, then the thing to do is vilify them, question their motives, assume the worst.
Randy Davis:
These folks that could not vote for this waiving of attorney-client privilege, some of them were saying, “I don’t know what the ramifications of this are. I don’t understand where this is going to lead.” For whatever reason, I don’t know, but I know this, that I respect those that voted for waiving attorney-client privilege. I think there’s a polity issue. The Southern Baptist Convention voted that that be done. I’m disappointed that they could not find a way to go about doing that without what appears to be a blanket waiving of attorney-client privilege, and I’m not sure that is the case.
Randy Davis:
Dr. Floyd’s resignation… He wrote his resignation. He published his resignation. I trust Dr. Floyd in his explanation that he could not carry out his fiduciary responsibility as President and CEO of the Executive Committee of the Southern Baptist Convention if he could not move forward, knowing that private conversations, confidential conversations, discretionary conversations could not be guarded when he talked to his attorney and the EC’s attorney. I trust him, that he just felt like he couldn’t do this. Now, what many of us find distasteful is that thinking that these people resigned, they must be hiding something.
Matt Tullos:
Right.
Randy Davis:
I assume they’re not, and I assume they’re not based on decades of integrity and decades of reputation. Now, I’m going to trust the process, and I’m going to trust that the Sexual Abuse Task Force and Guidepost are going to do a fair job in their investigation, but they have not made the first report yet, so how do we jump to a conclusion that they have not reached through an investigative process?
Matt Tullos:
This leads into this next question. You’ve covered a couple of questions with your answer just a minute ago, but who actually is being accused of sexual abuse? Is it the churches? Is it the institutions?
Randy Davis:
Well, in the motion that came before the Southern Baptist Convention, the EC is being investigated by Guidepost and the third party. There is the task force that was put together by the President of the Southern Baptist Convention, Dr. Litton, and it was to investigate basically the EC’s response to allegations. Have they put up barriers to thoroughly, in doing a good investigation? Ronnie Floyd… No staff member at the executive committee, no member of the executive committee board, none of them have been accused of sexual abuse.
Randy Davis:
Let me add, please, that ignoring sexual abuse and treating it lightly is a horrible, horrible sin. I do not believe that anyone in the EC, associated with the EC, is being accused of sexually abusing anyone.
Matt Tullos:
You touched on this, but can you help explain the legal ramifications of waiving attorney-client privilege. I believe you touched on there. Is there anything else you would want to share about that?
Randy Davis:
I’m learning with everyone else. I know a little bit more about cattle farming, since my daddy owned some cattle, but I don’t know what all the legal ramifications of it might be. I just know that it is viewed as something that is a foundational bedrock part of the judicial system. Can it be waived? Yes, it can be waived, but I know that some of the folks at the EC felt like they just couldn’t participate in governing with that being waived.
Randy Davis:
We don’t know what the long-term impact, the unintended consequences might be of waiving attorney-client privilege. I know that there are other institutions right now that are involved with similar investigations, and Guidepost is the third party investigating them. The waiving of attorney-client privilege has not been called for in those instances.
Randy Davis:
Now, please understand. I’m not a defender of waiving attorney-client privilege, nor am I an advocate of it. I’m just like most Baptists. I’m trying to look at it and figure out exactly what it is. I don’t know the ramifications of waiving attorney-client privilege, what those might be.
Matt Tullos:
This leads into another question, Dr. Davis. Could waiving attorney-client privilege potentially harm the EC staff and board members?
Randy Davis:
Well, there again, I don’t know that. I think the short answer to that is you’ve had more than a dozen, I think the number’s up to 15 or 16 executive committee members that have resigned. That’s out of a little more than 80, and so that’s a large percentage of them that have resigned. Some of them are related to other boards or other entities, and because they’re part of a board that has waived attorney-client privilege, they do not feel that they can continue to serve the EC and other boards that they may be on.
Matt Tullos:
Right. We’ll shift gears and go in a different direction here, another question that kind of comes out of right field, in comparison to what we’ve been talking about. This pastor asks this question, “Do you think Kevin Ezell is really trying to take a power grab and rule over missions in North America and possibly the world with Global Relief?”
Randy Davis:
Well, let me address, specifically, the Global Relief aspect of it. I don’t think that’s a power grab. I think BGR, which was a subsidiary of the International Mission Board, another corporation that responded to disasters around the world. It makes sense that they would join forces with Send Relief at the North American Mission Board. I think that’s an effort where you combine two entities, and it becomes much more efficient.
Randy Davis:
Now, power grab… I think reasonable people have to sit down and talk through things like this. Dr. Ezell and I had a conversation in Atlanta a few years back related to Send Relief and Disaster Relief, and the rollout of Send Relief in disasters, and it was a disaster, as far as relationships go, but we sat down, we talked about it, we found a way forward, and it was heart to heart, eyeball to eyeball, and now this traditional Southern Baptist Disaster Relief and Send Relief have been working much closely together over the last couple of years. We see great progress there. I’m hearing that from boots on the ground, from people that are involved in Disaster Relief. They’re saying they’re getting a great deal of support from Send Relief.
Randy Davis:
Power grab might be a little bit too strong. I don’t see that, as it relates to Baptist Global Response and Send Relief in the area of working through disasters.
Matt Tullos:
Right. Then, one other question. Why did James Merritt and the resolution committee refuse to deal with CRT during the SBC?
Randy Davis:
Well, I don’t know Dr. Merritt’s heart, and I didn’t sit in on those meetings. As you know, in 2019, the Tennessee Baptist Convention had a very plainly worded renunciation of critical race theory that was overwhelmingly passed and embraced by our messengers across the races. I’m very thankful for that backdrop.
Randy Davis:
Now, I would’ve preferred that the resolution that was brought forward by the resolutions committee would have addressed CRT, but let me just say that I’ve got that resolution in front of me, and what they say here is pretty strong. In the middle of the… It’s called Resolution Two: On the Sufficiency of Scripture for Race and Racial Reconciliation. In the first resolve, it says that the messengers at the SBC meeting in Nashville affirm the sufficiency of Scripture on race and racial reconciliation, and be it further resolved that we affirm our agreement with historic, biblically faithful Southern Baptist condemnations of racism in all forms, and then the third resolve, and be it resolved that we reject any theory or worldview that finds the ultimate identity of human beings in ethnicity or in any other group dynamic. Then the fourth resolve is this, bear with me, that we reject any theory or worldview that sees the primary problem of humanity as anything other than sin against God and the ultimate solution as anything other than redemption found only in Christ.
Randy Davis:
Now, there’s a lot more meat on those bones, but basically what they said in this resolution is that the Scripture is sufficient, and the problem with racism is sin, and nothing else. I applaud that resolution. Personally, I don’t think it would’ve hurt to spell out CRT as an example, but nonetheless, I think that resolution was well worded in the fact that it elevated the Bible, the Scripture, as the ultimate authority.
Matt Tullos:
It really seems very clear in that statement. As a pastor who grew up in Louisiana, I did want to ask you if LSU has any chance whatsoever against Alabama, but I won’t ask that question. I thank you so much.
Randy Davis:
Hey, buddy, Texas A&M, there’s always a chance.
Matt Tullos:
Anything else? Let’s do a little housekeeping. Is there any other thing that you would want to address to our pastors who are here. We’ve got 74. We’re also going to be banking this on our Vimeo site, where people can go back, and you can share this if someone has some confusion, but I think you did a great job, Dr. Davis, explaining your perspective on this. Any other words?
Randy Davis:
Well, yeah, I would say let’s be praying for that Sexual Abuse Task Force, that they bring about some information that will be helpful and help us find a way forward from this. Pray for victims of sexual abuse. I mean, when we list all of the issues going on with Southern Baptist Convention, that’s the one that’s been paramount. That’s paramount before us right now, so I think we need to be careful to address that but then move on.
Randy Davis:
Another thing I would say, Matt, is that our churches are grappling with what to do with their mission dollars. I would just remind them that out in the forefront of our discussions over the last several years has been the EC. That’s been the prominent question and subject matter today, the executive committee, but then, on top of that, the ERLC. They filed an amicus brief that was totally false in the Fifth Circuit Court of Appeals last spring. That was addressed. They revised it. Once it went to the Supreme Court in the McRaney case, the NAMB-McRaney case, and so they helped correct that. The ERLC does some good work. They’re standing strong for life and, really, the sin of abortion. They’re coming on strong being against that and being for life.
Randy Davis:
The EC, boy, they’ve got some good brothers down there doing a good work and some great sisters that are wonderfully helping, but the EC and the ERLC combined on your mission dollar, given through the cooperative program, only about one and a half cents on every dollar goes to those two entities of the Southern Baptist entities.
Randy Davis:
Now, we’ve had some people questioning should I pull back my cooperative program support? By the way, last Friday, we concluded our cooperative program fiscal year, as far as receiving cooperative program dollars, and I’m thrilled to report today that last year we came within a fraction of a percent, a fraction of a percent, to reaching our $35 million cooperative program goal, and we had more than $700,000 more come in this year than last year, but there’s some saying, “Should I pull back?”
Randy Davis:
Listen. I want you to know that if you were to stop giving through the cooperative program tomorrow, great work happening in the state of Tennessee would be hampered and hurt; 3600 missionaries are depending on that support and 2500 children of those missionaries are depending on that support, children involved in foster care, so many other good ministries, compassion ministries, right here in Tennessee would be hampered. Cooperative program is a great missions mutual fund.
Randy Davis:
Matt, I would just encourage folks to focus on the many incredible things that are going on in good. Have we had any questions come in just in the last few minutes? We’ve got a couple of minutes left.
Matt Tullos:
Yeah, we did. Since we have some extra time, and if it’s okay with Chris, let me just mention these. Pete [Tackett 00:27:05] said, “Is it possible to address the issue of how churches pulling back from CP hurts our missionary enterprise?” Which I think you’ve just addressed that. Any other thought there?
Randy Davis:
No. I appreciate Pete asking that question, and you don’t have to share a name. I’m proud of Pete and his help and the work he’s doing up in Johnson City. Love that brother. What other question came in?
Matt Tullos:
What authoritative directives could the GuideStone investigation issue to autonomous local churches? That is a complex question there.
Randy Davis:
You know what? As I understand Baptist polity, the report that’s coming out at the Southern Baptist Convention in Anaheim, California, this summer, they can issue no directives to the local church. The thing we must guard and be very careful about is our Baptist polity. Now, polity means this is how we’re structured. How we’re structured is that every church is autonomous. Every association is autonomous. Every state convention is autonomous. Every Southern Baptist entity is autonomous.
Randy Davis:
There’s not going to be a directive that comes out and says, “Tennessee Baptist Convention, this is what you’ve got to do.”
Matt Tullos:
[crosstalk 00:28:29].
Randy Davis:
“Antioch Baptist Church, this is what you’ve got to do.” I mean, our polity does not allow that. We are not… There’s no pope. There’s no college of cardinals. The tip of the spear for Southern Baptist is the local church.
Matt Tullos:
Had another question come in. If TBMB churches elect to keep all of their CP giving in the state of Tennessee, will the state of Tennessee count all those gifts toward the church’s CP giving in the Book of Reports?
Randy Davis:
The answer to that question, no. It would not be considered cooperative program giving. We appreciate you staying focused, but it would not be considered cooperative program giving. Now, churches can designate their giving any way they want to, and we’re going to do all we can to accommodate exactly what the churches want to do.
Randy Davis:
At the Tennessee Baptist Convention coming up in just a couple of weeks, there will be a recommendation coming to the body from the constitution and bylaws committee about changing a bylaw that says in order to have messengers, you must give through the cooperative program. That was just changed in 2007. It wasn’t like that before 2007, and so we’re going to somewhat go back to the way we do things. You see, when I mentioned the ERLC’s filing that amicus brief before the Fifth Circuit, in which they erroneously said that the Southern Baptist Convention is a hierarchy, that’s just false, and they corrected it. I had a personal conversation with Russell Moore and some of his people. We exchanged emails about that. They got more input before it was refiled before the Supreme Court, and it was changed to state the opposite.
Randy Davis:
When I entered into that conversation, I thought, you know what? We need to get our own house in order on this matter, because we are not a connectional kind of network of churches. You don’t say to Second Baptist Church in one city, “Now in order to be a part of this association, you’ve got to give to the TBC.” You don’t do that. We don’t say, “You’ve got to give through the cooperative program to be a part of the TBC,” if we’re going to be correct in our polity, because that’s saying you’ve got to be a part of the SBC.
Randy Davis:
The SBC realizes this better than we do. You do not have to give through the cooperative program to have messengers at the SBC. You give through any entity that’s related to the SBC, and you can have messengers to the SBC. I appreciate that question a great deal. I’m glad we could answer it. We look forward to having this discussion at the convention.
Matt Tullos:
One of the things I really appreciate you is that you’re able to explain questions about GuideStone, and all that stuff that just kind of boggles my mind, very simply, and we appreciate that, and we appreciate your leadership here at the Tennessee Baptist Mission Board. Any final comments?
Randy Davis:
Yeah, just my email and cell phone number’s out there. If you guys ever want to call me, please don’t feel like you… I really want you to feel the freedom to do that, and we’ll continue with any of these discussions. I’ll be happy to talk with anyone anytime, and I just appreciate you all very, very much. Matt, why don’t you lead us in a word of prayer?
Matt Tullos:
Okay, I appreciate that.
Matt Tullos:
Lord, I just thank You so much for these pastors and the way You’ve used them and the churches in the past, and we believe that, together, You’re going to use them in the future to win Tennessee and the nations with the Gospel. God, we just thank You so much for their partnership.
Matt Tullos:
Father, we pray, above anything else, that we’ll have the single focus to do just that. Father, our hearts have been grieved by the state of the world and, in many instances, the state of the SBC and the church as a whole, so God, help us stay focused on the Great Commission and to serve the Bride, Father, to love people the way that You taught us to love them.
Matt Tullos:
Lord, thanks again for these choice servants of ours and of the churches in our convention and in our state and all that they do to share the Good News from Memphis to Mongolia and all the places in between. We just thank You for them. In Christ’s name we pray, amen.
Matt Tullos:
Thank you so much for joining us.
Randy Davis:
Thank you, Matt. Thank you, all. See you later.